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Southern Baptist in NC

Keeping Christ central in the world of Southern Baptists

Aug 12

17

Dr. Page’s Committee–What does it Say?—By Tim Rogers–UPDATED

Posted by Tim Rogers on August 17, 2012
Posted in Baptist • Baptist Faith and Message 2000 • Baptist Issues • Baptist Press • Calvinism • Dr. Frank Page  | Tagged With: , , | 4 Comments

After some searching I found out something very interesting.  Dr. Page sought the advice of Dr. Dockery in the formation of this “group of advisers”.  It is this very issue that Dr. Page seems to be overlooking and not getting.  Dr. Dockery is the President of Union University–the very place that Dr. Frank Page serves as Trustee and will be until 2015.  It is the “good ole boy” network that has kept us from dealing with the issues and Dr. Page’s reliance on Dr. Dockery’s assistance clearly pushes the envelope of open and transparent discourse.

Dr. Page has now formed his committee and it speaks volumes about the problem in the convention.  The problem, according to Dr. Page, is “practical in nature not doctrinal.” Thus, according to Dr. Page we do not have a disagreement over theology but our disagreement is over how we get along together with the different theological slants that drive us.  Dr. Page presented, in this edition of Baptist Press, a more in depth analysis of the task before the “group of advisers”.

With that in mind I want to explore two things the formation of this “group of advisers” says about the issue before us.  It is evident this “group of advisers” will have no authority in their outcome. Also, it is evident that the “group of advisers” is formed to present a top-down solution for the issues before the convention.

First, we have another official/unofficial group of people acting in a position that will bring about an official/unofficial solution for a problem.

Dr. Frank Page

“My goal is to develop a strategy whereby people of various theological persuasions can purposely work together in missions and evangelism,” Page told Baptist Press.

Page emphasized that the group is “not an official committee” of the convention. He also said additional names could be added to the group.

“It’s a group of helpers helping Frank Page come up with some sort of strategy document.”

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Jul 12

11

Calvinism–Not the Only Position being Pushed on Churches by LifeWay–Margaret Fienberg–By Tim Rogers

Posted by Tim Rogers on July 11, 2012
Posted in Baptist Faith and Message 2000 • Baptist Issues • Lifeway • Southern Baptist  | Tagged With: , , , , , | 25 Comments

After the announcement of The Gospel Project, Peter Lumpkins exposed the hard line Calvinist doctrine that was being pushed on Southern Baptists. The Gospel Project is a new Sunday School curriculum that promotes a Calvinistic doctrine while not referencing the reformed slant but instead refers to it as “The Gospel”. Now, for the marketing plan, LifeWay is giving to the churches that sign-up for the curriculum a quarter of material free of charge.

After this move it makes pastors suspicious of new projects that come from LifeWay.  Today I was opening my mail at the church and found a catalog for “Women’s Ministry”.  As I was perusing the various bible studies I took special note of the female authors. The usual ones were there, Beth Moore, Priscilla Shirer, Kay Arthur, etc. etc.  There were multiple authors that I did not recognize that were much younger and seemingly new that were being featured by LifeWay.  Then, to my surprise, I saw a author that would be normally classified as a Moderate. Margaret Feinberg is a author that would not be able to affirm the Baptist Faith and Message 2000.  Notice her debate with Dr. Voddie Baucham in a CNN interview.

It seems that Margaret Feinberg would not affirm “the office of pastor is limited to men as qualified by Scripture” As a result of the CNN debate Jonathan Merritt describes Dr. Baucham’s response as, “looney-toon comment“. Read more

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Jun 12

7

Dr. Jerry Vines the Jerry Rice of the SBC–By Tim Rogers

Posted by Tim Rogers on June 7, 2012
Posted in Baptist Faith and Message 2000 • Baptist Issues • Calvinism • Dr. Jerry Vines  | Tagged With: , ,

Jerry (Dr. Jerry Vines) Rice

Jerry Rice was one of the best wide receivers in the history of the NFL. When he played past the time that many men would be sidelined, Jerry Rice could still make amazing catches and take it into the end zone for a touch down. Jerry Rice was not only noted for his gentle hands in catching the ball but he was also noted for leaving the end zone dances to the younger up start receivers.

Well, we have our own Jerry Rice in the Southern Baptist Convention–Dr. Jerry Vines. Dr. Vines is no longer calling the plays, but he is still the “go to” guy when we need a statesman’s voice. Dr. Vines delivered such a statement yesterday on his Vines Lines blog.  Dr. Vines responded to Dr. Mohler and really called it what it is–an Elephant in the Room.  Dr. Vines expressed a statesmen like attitude and tone in his OP.  He never spoke down or condescending to Dr. Mohler or about Calvinists.

Dr. Vines expressed his concerns on two levels.  First, Dr. Vines senses that Dr. Mohler doesn’t believe those signing the document are astute enough to see Semi-Pelagianism when we read it.  The second concern Dr. Vines expressed is the different breed of Calvinism that is invading our ranks today.  Dr. Vines expressed that he has no desire and is hesitant to engage in a fight with friends. However, as he said, let the discussion begin.  I encourage you to read Dr. Vines words.

He is growing old and he doesn’t have three of the hairs he once had on top of his head, but the old man can still catch the pass and take it to the end zone. In his retirement years I am praying that he doesn’t accept an invitation to Dancing with the Stars.

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Jun 12

6

Dr. Al Mohler–Let Us Reason Together; Can Two Walk Together…? By Tim Rogers

Posted by Tim Rogers on June 6, 2012
Posted in Baptist Faith and Message 2000 • Baptist Issues • Calvinism • Doctrine • Dr. Al Mohler • Dr. Bailey Smith • Dr. Chuck Kelley • Dr. Paige Patterson • SBC President • SBC Seminaries  | Tagged With: | 1 Comment

Dr. Albert Mohler, President of Southern Baptist Theological Seminary, has released a statement concerning the movement of a group of Southern Baptist Pastors.  On May 31, 2012 a statement entitled, “A Statement of the Traditional Southern Baptist Understanding of God’s Plan of Salvation” was released to the public.  This statement was formed by a group of pastors that were concerned the majority of Southern Baptists were not represented well with the term “non-Calvinist”. We desired to positively express our position and begin a convention-wide conversation where our viewpoint would be listened to and affirmed.  As Dr. Eric Hankins said to me in one specific conversation; “if we find out that it is only you and me then we step back acknowledging we are wrong and begging the forgiveness of the convention.”  We desire to have a conversation and see this conversation produce amenable ends that will move forward the Great Commission.

A few observations concerning Dr. Mohler’s statement seem to be in order at this time.  First, Dr. Mohler’s words certainly are music to my ears.  For many years we were told there was nothing to talk about because the BF&M says all we need to say on this issue. Dr. Mohler even states as much in his response when he says;

“This means that every single Southern Baptist should be ready to work gladly with every other Southern Baptist who stands within the Baptist Faith & Message.”

It is this type of response that we are used to.  However, Dr. Mohler goes further than just hinging everything on the BF&M.  He acknowledges our concerns and even affirms our position in expressing these concerns.

Second, Dr. Mohler appears to desire a sit down.  But, whom does he desire to sit down and discuss the differences?  Dr. Patterson? Dr. Moore? Dr. Akin?  This is a group of Pastors that began this movement.  If Dr. Mohler truly desires to sit down and discuss this issue, it needs to take place, at the least, with the pastors whose names are on the document.

Third, Dr. Mohler is very affirmative in his acknowledgment of the rights we posses as individual Baptists to place our convictions on paper.  Thank you Dr. Mohler because we have seen statements from others questioning our motives in placing this before the convention.  You have not questioned our motives and for that I do thank you.

As to my position on Dr. Mohler’s statement, I would affirm him in a positive way.  He truly seems to try and acknowledge our position.  However, it is that very issue that brings a halt in my spirit in his assessment.  I hesitate to heap too many accolades on his statement for three reasons.

First his warning against “theological tribalism”. Read more

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Aug 11

8

Surry Baptist Association Votes to Dis-fellowship a Member Church

Posted by Tim Rogers on August 8, 2011
Posted in Associations • Baptist • Baptist Faith and Message 2000 • Bloggers • Church • Doctrine • Uncategorized  | 15 Comments

In recent days we have seen the blogs light up over a vote by a North Carolina Baptist Association to dis-fellowship one of its member churches.  The vote to withdraw fellowship is a very serious matter and one that should not be taken lightly.  The action of this association has drawn many articles in the news and also on the blogs.  The Baptist news agencies coverage can be found here and here. The various blogs that I have seen covering this issue can be found here, here, here, here, and here.  What is truly amazing to me is the lack of coverage over at the Baptist Life forum and also on my favorite Moderate’s blog, The BigDaddyWeave.  However, something else has surprised me concerning this issue.

I called Dr. Billy Blakley and received his permission to post this on my blog. In my conversation with him he expressed to me that no blogger has contacted his office and this comes after we had a blogger express his ethical guidelines. However, he posted about this issue without even contacting the DOM and even admitted as much in his article.  Here you will find the Association’s official response concerning this situation. Below you will find this same letter composed by the Association’s Vice-Moderator for their church.  He gave Dr. Blakley permission to use it as the Association’s response to this issue.

The following article is written by Dr. Joel Stephens, pastor of Westfield Baptist Church and Vice-Moderator of the SBA, and by Rev. Jim Richland, associate pastor of Westfield Baptist Church and chairman of the Membership Committee of the SBA. Since it explains the rationale and the biblical basis for the motion made to remove fellowship with Flat Rock Baptist Church, I want to share the article with all our Surry Baptist members.

This month, due to a situation that has developed in another church within the Surry Baptist Association (SBA), your pastors felt it necessary to write a joint article to address the situation and how it may affect our Association and our congregation. The situation is as follows: Flat Rock Baptist Church of Mount Airy voted to call a new pastor who happens to be a female. Many within the Surry Association feel that this action is unbiblical, and we agree.

The role of women within the church is a complex, broad, and hotly disputed issue. Our newsletter forum does not provide adequate space to deal with this subject exhaustively. But there are some basic issues that need to be addressed. In order to address these issues, it is absolutely necessary to investigate the Scriptures that relate to it without taking those verses out of context and therefore arriving at a faulty interpretation.

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Nov 10

17

NC Baptist State Convention Part 2

Posted by Tim Rogers on November 17, 2010
Posted in Alcohol • Baptist Faith and Message 2000 • Baptist State Convention of North Carolina • Milton Hollifield  | 5 Comments

In a previous article concerning the convention I covered the motion that I raised concerning social drinking.  Since that time the Biblical Recorder has released an article concerning my motion and a motion on the Baptist Faith and Message 2000 becoming our doctrinal parameters. What is interesting is the Baptist Faith and Message motion only gets minimal press coverage and the resolution affirming the Great Commission Task Force Report made by fellow pastor and blogger Brent Hobbs, took a 2/3 majority to get to the floor then passed overwhelmingly has seemingly received little to no press coverage. Be that as it may I would like to conclude my report on the convention by assessing the directions discussed and the results of the votes at this year’s convention.

First, we will have a shorter meeting next year.

It is apparent that we need a shorter meeting.  What does that mean for certain things?  Will that mean that the Pastor’s Conference will end at noon on Monday and the convention begin at 2:00pm?  Does that mean that the “break out” sessions will take the same route of the CBF-NC–no longer a part of the annual convention?  I understand the need for a shorter meeting as Wednesday morning’s session is populated by the same people that populate a crime scene–only necessary personnel.  On Wednesday morning this year, according to the schedule, we saw the WMU–10 minutes; Board of Directors–20 minutes; Baptist Foundation–5 minutes; Baptist Hospital-5 minutes; and then three committees reported–30 minutes.  Of course if one adds up the time it took for those reports, one will find a total time of 1 hours and 10 minutes.  If one observes the schedule for the Break Out sessions one will find 1 hour and 15 minutes for that time.  Thus, we do have the room in the current format to schedule the Wednesday AM business for Tuesday afternoon.

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