Header image alt text

Southern Baptist in NC

Keeping Christ central in the world of Southern Baptists

Jul 08

15

Embrace–New Women’s Ministry

Posted by Tim Rogers on July 15, 2008
Posted in Baptist State Convention of North Carolina • Embrace Women's Ministry • Women's Missionary Union of North Carolina • Women's Prayer Evangelism Conference  | 1 Comment

The Executive Committee of the Baptist State Convention of North Carolina (BSCNC) received a report at their May meeting concerning a new women ministry.  The following is the report as presented on the convention website.

Phyllis Foy, Chair of the Women’s Ministry Task Force reported that they had made significant progress in shaping the overall direction of the ministry.  The desire of the group has been to re-shape women’s ministry into a work where local churches would be empowered to build strong families capable of creating a legacy of faithfulness throughout their entire lifetime and beyond through faithful service in their roles as wives, mothers, and servants of the church of Jesus Christ. The name of the new ministry is Embrace: North Carolina Baptist Women’s Missions and Ministries. The task force has finalized their mission statement: Embrace

Foy explained that the focus of the ministry seeks to restore to the church of Christ a passionate commitment to the home and the well being of families as the biblical center of training and involvement in missions.  “Families should not be separated when missions is at the heart of a home,” Foy said.  “Our hope is that entire families might be able to participate together in mission projects which would bring honor to Christ and his church.” The task force will continue to work in preparation of a final report to be presented to messengers of the 178th annual session of the BSCNC. God’s call to minister to women, their families and future generations for the building up of the church.  They identified three key goals for the ministry and completed an initial action plan for the first two years of the ministry. The ministry goals:  1) Engage women with the gospel of Jesus Christ; 2) Educate women to daily study and apply God’s Word in their lives; 3) Equip women to do kingdom work through service locally and globally.

It seems that there is some discrepency as to the recognition from the national WMU in releasing promotional material for our International and North American missions offering.  In the latest meeting there was a letter presented to the EC that was addressed to Mrs. Foy from WMU Executive Director-Treasurer Wanda Lee to Phyllis Foy, who leads the North Carolina woman’s ministry task force. It clearly indicated that WMU would provide mission education materials through channels other than the state WMU. However, Mrs. Ruby Fulbright acknowledged that only educational materials will be given, but promotional materials for the International and the North American missions offering will only be distributed through the NC WMU organization. It is a shame, as it appears, that missions promotional material will be held hostage.

Also, I would encourage you to make plans now for the Women’s Prayer Evangelism Conference.  (Click on the picture on the left to enlarge) There will be multiple Breakout session throughout Friday and Saturday.  The following Breakout session will inform and inspire women as the groudwork is laid for this alternative women’s ministry.  There may be some that are WMU Trublue but that is ok.  From what I understand about this ministry they are not competing against WMU but merely offerring an alternative to WMU.  This alternative is for those ladies that desire to make an impact through missions and ministries but feel the WMU has left them.  If that is how you feel, you will not want to miss the following Breakout session.  It appears there will be two times and I assume that the same material will be discussed at each session.  You can download a complete schedule of the Breakout Sessions.

Embrace Women’s Missions & Ministry
Room: Spilman 2AB
Time: Friday, 9:00-10:00pm

Saturday, 8:45-9:45am

This session is an overview of Embrace, a new ministry for women of the North Carolina Baptist State Convention. We will share our philosophy of ministry, details of immediate plans and the vision for the future. This ministry provides a support system for women whose desire it is to be involved in women’s missions and ministries for the building up of the local church and the advancement of the gospel of Jesus Christ, teaching women to create a legacy of faithfulness.


Digg ThisShare via email

Apr 08

8

Roosting Chickens

Posted by Tim Rogers on April 8, 2008
Posted in East Taylorsville Baptist Church • Mrs. Ruby Fullbright • Women's Missionary Union of North Carolina  | 3 Comments

In the rural area that I grew up there was a saying that meant something for us. Whenever we would do something that we did not know what the outcome would be my father would always say, “The chickens have not come home to roost, yet.” This saying meant that it was too early to make an assessment of a situation because everything was not completed that would affect the outcome.

So it is with the new move of our Women’s Missionary Union in North Carolina. According to this report it seems that one former WMU-NC Executive Director has taken issue with the leadership of the Baptist State Convention of North Carolina. The author of this report seems to purport a falsely held understanding of reason WMU-NC left the Baptist Building in Cary. He reports that the Missions Extravaganza was WMU-NC’s “first meeting since the group was required to give up its office space and all Baptist State Convention (BSC) support in order to retain its autonomy.” What is a falsely held understanding is that WMU-NC was not ‘required’ to give up its office space. The ‘requirement’ of office space came when WMU-NC chose to leave the Baptist Building. The former executive director makes a reference to the unnecessary task that is before the BSCNC and that is beginning another women’s ministry organization. The task is completely unnecessary because had the WMU-NC grasped the truth of the role of the BSCNC executive director their autonomy would have remained intact along with their payroll, fleet car privileges, office space, and their place in the annual NC Missions offering. Read the arrogance of this statement by a former executive director made at the previous Missions Extravaganza; ““Some think we no longer need WMU,” she said, “that some other women’s program can take our place.” This appears to be a reference to the newly established task force, headed by former WMU-NC President who was also former NCBSC 1st VP Phyllis Foy.

In another article on the latest WMU-NC gathering we see more of this rhetoric from the current executive director.

Some things have been said that are absolutely not true,” Fulbright said, things that have caused hardship in some churches. “We want to express our apology for any difficulty you have gone through or may be going through,” she said, “and to remind you that WMU was born in adversity.

Notice something about that first phrase–is does not identify what has been said that is not true. This is the same problem the leadership of the BSCNC had in trying to resolve the issue that led to the WMU-NC leaving the building. In the meeting that was held at East Taylorsville Baptist Church back in October, everytime Dr. Brian Davis expressed what was taking place, Mrs. Fulbright responded with, ‘you are correct but that is not how we see it.’ She even acknowledged that Dr. Davis correctly assessed the impasse and wanted to state the WMU-NC’s side and was given free opportunity to express their differences. The only things she said were not correct was issues concerning who the WMU-NC wanted to partner. Something she acknowledged did not come from the leadership of the BSCNC. It comes a time that someone needs to ask; “What things have been said that are not true?” It seems that if an untruth has been stated that caused autonomous churches hardship, please release this information and let’s get to the bottom of it. This, my friends, is a serious charge.

Another item of importance seems to be overlooked. According to the WMU-NC, they would need approximately $1.2 million in order to accomplish their task. Of this $1.2 million, the BSCNC was supplying approximately $900 thousand through the NC MIssions Offering and the rest would be supplied through the BSCNC budget. Well, the WMU-NC stepped out and re-established the Heck-Jones Missions offering. This Offering was promoted and received in churches throughout NC and has $336 thousand coming into their coffers so far. Mr. Fulbright said;“It’s not enough, not yet, but God is providing for our needs in other ways”. One-third of the WMU budget was received in one offering and she is espousing that God is providing for needs in other ways. I am not saying that God is not going to provide, His word tells us He will. In Psalm 37:25 David writes, “I have been young and now I am old, I have never seen His seed forsaken or the righteous begging bread.” I am questioning that $336k is sufficient for their needs at this moment, where was the other $600k going when they were in the baptist building, and their payroll, office space, printing needs, insurance, and salaries were being paid from the BSCNC budget?

One other item of interest has to do with something reported. It seems that the WMU-NC has had a great year even though there was such controversy within their organization. It seems that the WMU-NC added 138 new mission organizations in the past year. This seems to have been a great addition. My question concerning this report would be who the organizations are? According to the WMU-NC website there are currently six mission organizations that WMU-NC is together in partnership. Now, they are telling us that they have added 138 new missions organizations and they are over $900k in making their budget. There appears to be one of two things that are at work in this announcement. Either these 138 new missions organizations are associated with WMU-NC in name only, or WMU-NC is living off of excess funds that they have received. If the former is true, then we have a serious problem concerning this announcement. If the latter is true, then the BSCNC was presented a false concept by former executive director/treasurer Dr. Roy Smith when he presented his motion on Wednesday AM of the convention meeting arguing that the WMU-NC was in desperate needs of the $500k that he recommended go back into the NC Missions Offering. Either way, whether the former or latter, there seems to be some issue concerning financing the ministry of the WMU-NC .

Of course, the WMU-NC is new in their endeavor and I do pray that God will bless them as they proceed. I do like the song played as the ladies walked around thanking those in attendance. I also would like to call their attention to the first verse in the song.

Run your car off the side of the road
Get stuck in a ditch way out in the middle of nowhere

It seems that if one accidently runs one’s car off the side of the road in a ditch your true friends will be there to bail you out. The BSCNC has been there, and is still there, to get the ladies of NC Baptist Churches out of the ditch, but the WMU-NC leadership has gotten in the car with others and driven off, leaving this car loaded down with NC Baptist women who love missions for the rest of us to get out of the ditch. The BSCNC has organized a task force and it appears that a recommendation may be before the convention in October. When it comes before us this car, left there by others, will have been pulled out of the ditch by their friends. As for the future of the WMU-NC, it is still to early to tell as the chickens have not come home to roost.

Digg ThisShare via email

Mar 08

3

What Does it Mean?

Posted by Tim Rogers on March 3, 2008
Posted in Alliance of Baptist • Baptist State Convention of North Carolina • Cooperative Baptist Fellowship • Dr. Bill Leonard • Dr. Tony Cartledge • Ethics Daily • Mainstream Baptist • Mrs. Ruby Fullbright • New Baptist Covenant Celebration • Robert Parham • Wall Street Journal • Women's Missionary Union of North Carolina  | 16 Comments

When I was younger in my BC days, I went to a beer joint/pool hall called the “Blues Bar” along with my cousin and his friends. When daddy found out that I have been to this place, he questioned me as to my intention of doing something like that, as the bar was known for being a place where shooting guns was as common as shooting pool. I tried to dodge daddy’s questions by referencing the friends I went with were more friends of my cousin than friends of mine. Daddy responded with words that ring in my ears to this day. He said; ‘You may not be able to pick your family, but you can certainly pick your acquaintances‘. Which brings me to the point of today’s post.

During my time of sitting up with my mother at the hospital recently, while she was asleep, I would peruse the Google search engine for various items. One such item of interest to me was the connection of North Carolina Baptist with the New Baptist Covenant Celebration recently held in Atlanta. What peaked my interest was the advertising of this event in the Biblical Recorder, the state paper for the Baptist State Convention of North Carolina. I began this search out of curiosity and the more I searched the more I began to see connections that most NC Baptist may not be aware.

First allow me to lay some basic ground work. Before anyone tries to attack this post saying that I am presenting this from a biased perspective. I do admit my bias as to my suspicions that this celebration was not what it was billed to be. Let us look to an independent news agency for their explanation of the event. I, for one, have always stated this celebration was not about getting Baptist together for expanding the kingdom as much as it was for getting them together to expand the Democratic party base. As Naomi Schaefer Riley stated:

The New Baptist Covenant is officially apolitical. But with Mr. Gore and former presidents Jimmy Carter and Bill Clinton on the roster of speakers at a meeting jammed last week between the Florida primary and Super Tuesday, one might be forgiven for doubting this claim.

It seems that an independent news agency such as The Wall Street Journal, would be one that is unbiased. However, it appears that Robert Parham, Editor at Ethics Daily, disagrees. He said her article had too many errors. In a response that is classic liberal smack down, he addresses her title at the Wall Street Journal in a degrading way. What Mr. Parham forgets is that an Editor for Friday’s Taste page, in the Wall Street Journal would have more readers than the Editor of Ethics Daily.

Therefore, from an independent news agency, this celebration was about politics, not Baptist politics mind you, but secular politics. Does that mean that those involved were there to promote the Democratic Party? No, that is not what I am saying. I do believe that many people involved in this event were there simply to do the various duties within their convention. This celebration was planned, with different motives other than uniting Baptist to move forward to overcome poverty, aids, global warming, promote civil rights for gays and other issues it seems that conservatives are accused of not caring for. Allow me to note two other items and then draw some connections of North Carolina Baptist that many may not be aware.

If this celebration was about bringing everyone together, where was everybody on Thursday and Friday? You see we heard about the expected 20,000 people and then the count of over 12,000 people that attended on Wednesday evening at the opening ceremony. But we have never been given any other numbers for the attendance when the other Baptist meetings closed out their conventions. It seems that most left and went back home. One example is the Al Gore luncheon. I am not going to try and argue the purposes of the the media not being allowed into his luncheon. I am not going to even try and argue how he presented our responsibility of God’s creation when he is an avowed evolutionist. But 2500 people attending a luncheon, at $35 a head mind you, does not make a grand statement to me as to the 12,000 Baptist reported at the Wednesday opening ceremony. Also, it seems that 2500 people paying $35 a head could have used that $87,000 to help feed these poor that this celebration was supposed to unite the Baptist that were present. It also seems that the food to feed 2500 people at $35 per plate was a bit extravagant. Certainly paying $35 for rubber chicken, uncooked green beans, hard dinner rolls, unsweetened tea, and carrot cake could have been better used feeding the homeless in Atlanta–where most were right outside the World Congress Center.

Also, with this celebration promoting unity among diversity, I have to ask a question. Where were the invitations for two groups? Everyone knows that the SBC was not invited. There never was an official invitation sent to the SBC. Therefore, there was no way for the SBC to decline to be involved. The SBC probably would not have accepted the invite, but the fact remains they were not invited. And you can now understand why, as you peruse the speakers manuscripts you find the the SBC was the favorite ‘whipping boy’ of many speakers. If President Carter believes this is an official representative of the SBC, then he has another thought coming.

The second group that was not invited were the Gays and Lesbians. According to this news article the diversity that the New Baptist Covenant calls for was not even allowed a voice in the arena. How pious and even hypocritical of Former President Carter in his opening talk to point to things that have divided Baptist as “He cited a laundry list of issues that have divided Baptists-the role of women in ministry and marriage, varying accounts of creation, legalized abortion, civil rights for gays, separation of church and state, and the death penalty.” This opening talk came a year after the Alliance of Baptist were not given invitations to be at the celebration. We certainly want to promote civil rights for gays but we will not allow them to be part of this celebration, because it is not politically expedient. Of course this did not seem to bother the Alliance churches because many of them already have a voice as they are connected to the Cooperative Baptist Fellowship. The Fellowship is strongly connected with the celebration and thus, the Gays and Lesbians are represented through this group.

Allow me to now make come connections that should cause NC Baptist to pay attention. As you look to the committees that were structured for the planning of this celebration you will notice some very well connected NC Baptist. First I want to point your attention to the Program Committee and you will not that Dr. Bill Leonard is a member of this committee. Dr. Leonard is the Dean of the Divinity School at Wake Forest University. You will remember that this is the divinity school that would not take a stand against receiving Gay and Lesbian Students to study for the ministry. It is not about the students themselves, but the fact that we have a Divinity School that does not support the scripture as speaking to the issue of homosexuality. Second, I want to point your attention to the Finance Committee. You will note that Dr. Mike Queen, Pastor of First Baptist Wilmington being involved in that committee. Dr. Queen, you will remember is a former President of the Executive Committee of the Baptist State Convention of North Carolina. While this does not really concern me as Dr. Queen is a pastor of an autonomous church, it would concern me if he were serving in a leadership position within our state convention at present. Third, there are 2 other NC Baptist connections serving on the Communications Committee that does concern me. One is Mrs. Ruby Fulbright. Mrs. Fulbright, as you know, is the Executive Director of WMU-NC. The same WMU-NC that recently left moved out from under the umbrella of the Baptist State Convention of North Carolina because they wanted to ‘do missions with other groups’. It seems that Mrs. Fulbright may have found another source of funding outside of NC Baptist by taking part in this celebration. Also, it concerns me to find Dr. Tony Cartledge listed as a member of this committee. It does not surprise me, but it does concern me that we have a professor teaching in a NC Baptist college/divinity school that will attend a celebration that puts down bible believing Baptist as being some fundamentalist idiots. Why does it concern me? Campbell University has a desire to still have access to the students in NC Baptist churches. These NC Baptist churches have repeatedly voted to align ourselves more fully with the Southern Baptist Convention, and we are sending our students to a school whose professors, at least one, openly plan a meeting to speak against the very rallying cry of the SBC.

I know that some may try to point out that Richard Brunson was a presenter in a break out session as reported by the Biblical Recorder. (The Recorder’s coverage of this event is another subject for another post. Suffice it to say when a state paper gives more coverage to an out of state meeting that the BSCNC was not participating, than to the Ex.Com. meeting going on the same week, it seems a little out of kilter.) As I understand it, the Baptist Men of North Carolina Director was invited to express to those that wanted to know, how we involve ourselves in Disaster Relief.

Which brings me back to my opening story. As NC Baptist we may not be able to choose those that God leads to become part of our fellowship. We certainly need to hold high the blood stained banner while lovingly and firmly communicating that we will not allow anything to compromise our doctrine in that banner. But we also need to remember we can choose those with whom we associate.

Digg ThisShare via email

Dec 07

2

Is there Precedence?

Posted by Tim Rogers on December 2, 2007
Posted in Baptist State Convention of North Carolina • Dr. Roy Smith • Milton Hollifield • Women's Missionary Union of North Carolina  | 8 Comments

In church life there is always someone that wants special attention. They desire it so much that many times the items they desire comes before the church for a vote. Usually when the vote is taken it comes as a result of campaigning in order to get the proper people in place in order to speak for the special item that calls for the entire church’s attention. When the vote is taken most Baptist will move in the direction of the vote and you never hear from it again. Unless that special item that would give someone the special attention that they sought is not passed by the church. Then there is an all out attack on the leadership of the church. You will hear things like; “the Deacons do nothing but follow the Pastor”; “the Pastor is a dictator that only wants his way”; “the people in this church have lost their voice”; and my personal favorite one to hear; “this is all about control and power”.

Denominational life is not that much different than church life. In denominational life you have the same types of issues come before the body. This past North Carolina Baptist State Convention (BSCNC) meeting was no different. What was different were the Wednesday morning votes. Dr. Roy Smith, retired Executive-Director Treasurer, presented an amendment to the budget that called for increasing the North Carolina Missions Offering (NCMO) $500k. This increase was to go the Women’s Missionary Union of North Carolina (WMU-NC) to enable them to make their transition from being under the umbrella of the BSCNC to becoming completely independent. This amendment was soundly defeated. That was the surprise. I was shocked that the amendment was defeated by such a large majority of messengers on Wednesday morning.

You have to know NC Baptist politics to understand my shock. First we are speaking about WMU. For NC Baptist there are three rules to surviving in the local church and state denominational life. One, do not say anything in private that you are not willing to vouch for in public. Two, most of the time those elected by the church/convention are not really the ones setting the vision. Three, never, ever, under any circumstances, cross the WMU. Why is the third one so important? Because you cannot argue against spending money that will enable missions. Also, you cannot debate why we need to close down the arm that is responsible for raising the Missions Offering.

Because the amendment failed we left Greensboro, NC with the understanding that the ball was now in WMU-NC’s court as to what they are going to do. Do they stay or do they go? If they stay the leadership of BSCNC has made it clear they will receive them back. But the WMU-NC has decided to leave and that appears final. Then something comes in the mail for the WMU director in the churches across NC that are affiliated with the BSCNC and it was a bit surprising. I was more disappointed than surprised but surprised was still my reaction. There was a personal letter signed by Dr. Roy Smith, along with his wife, inviting the WMU Directors to various meetings across the state. In this letter, disguised as an invitation to informational meetings, the WMU-NC’s apparent financial crisis is laid at the feet of the BSCNC leadership. Dr. Smith encourages the local WMU Directors to receive a special offering in their churches to help raise funds for the WMU-NC to make their transition for the next year. Dr. Smith invokes sentiments based on false information. Dr. Smith writes: “A crisis has been thrust upon Woman’s Missionary Union of North Carolina by the leadership of the Baptist State Convention.” This statement is, at the least ill informed about the issues, and at the most, intentionally false.

There are various areas of concern for me and I pray the leaders in our convention address them. First, Dr. Smith’s letter was a personal letter that was distributed by WMU-NC in WMU-NC envelops using a BSCNC postal stamp. That is correct BSCNC funds, because the NCMO offering is a negative offering, are being used. Dr. Smith has spoken disparagingly against the leadership of BSCNC and he did it on the BSCNC’s dime. Second, what precedence is being set by this letter? I am certain, with Dr. Smith being the NC Baptist historian that he is, there will be some obscure letter produced from somewhere in the 1950′s that comes from a person asking for funds for missions. However, I believe that one will find, if such a letter is produced, that it was a cooperative offering that was being promoted. The WMU-NC offering that Dr. Smith is promoting is one that is very divisive. Second, this letter is completely against the way that Baptist have done things in the past. Whenever a vote was taken in the past that did not go the way of conservatives, they regrouped and presented it differently to the convention the following year. Many walked away disappointed and even angry but never was there this kind of questionable tactics performed. Dr. Smith, through this move, has expressed that he knows better than 1500 BSCNC duly elected messengers on how to vote. Dr. Smith’s amendment was voted down and he has now found a way to retaliate on the dime of the ones that he is trying to bring down. Third, Dr. Smith has completely distanced himself from the Southern Baptist Convention. He is strangely making accusations against the leadership of the BSCNC and has consistently distanced himself along with the BSCNC from the SBC. The vote was taken by a duly called convention and the WMU-NC needs to make a decision. Because Dr. Smith is leading this charge and all of the churches that are hosting the meetings are aligned with the Cooperative Baptist Fellowship, the WMU-NC needs to make a decision. Either talk to the leadership of the convention and rectify a wrong, or leave and let the hollow promises of the Cooperative Baptist Fellowship-NC keep the bills paid. However, it appears that a decision has already been made. Here is a quote of Rev. Ruby Fulbright, Executive Director of WMU-NC:

WMU of NC is very appreciative of the continued support of CBFNC and the churches of this fellowship. We are grateful for the partnership we share in missions education and involvement. Now, I am overwhelmed by your kindness in helping us to meet practical needs – paying the bills. So many times the Father shows His amazing love in very unexpected ways.

Fourth, this letter comes out the end of November. By the timing, it is now presented as a direct appeal against the Lottie Moon Christmas Offering. How many churches will have WMU-NC Directors standing before their respective congregations, crying crocodile tears, appealing for people to take part of their planned Lottie offerring and send it to the WMU-NC? I think it is an egregious act for WMU-NC–an organization that says their hearts are for missions–to send out a letter at this time of the year. If this letter were to have come in January, I could have backed off of such strong rhetoric. However, with this letter surfacing at this time of the year, it tells me that the WMU-NC no longer is holding the ropes. It seems they have decided to release the ropes and allow our missions to suffer in order to fulfill their selfish desire not to have Milton Hollifield sign off on the people they hire. What a shame!

While I know there is nothing that the BSCNC leadership can do, per say, concerning this letter. They can call for Dr. Smith to reimburse the BSCNC for the funds it took to pay for the envelopes and postage. I am appalled and offended that a retired E-D/Treasurer would take this kind of public posture against a duly elected E-D/Treasurer. Dr. Smith owes Rev. Hollifield a public apology. The entire time that Brother Milton worked in the BSCNC he never spoke against Dr. Smith, and there probably will not be anything said by Brother Milton against Dr. Smith now. But Dr. Smith has made an unprecedented move against the BSCNC and the WMU-NC has made an unprecedented move against Lottie and our Missionaries.

Digg ThisShare via email

Nov 07

14

Baptist State Convention of North Carolina–Convention Wrap-up

Posted by Tim Rogers on November 14, 2007
Posted in Baptist Retirement Homes of North Carolina • Baptist State Convention of North Carolina • Children Homes of North Carolina • Milton Hollifield • North Carolina Baptist Men • Southern Baptist Convention • Women's Missionary Union of North Carolina  | 10 Comments

The closing gavel has fallen on the one-hundred and seventy-seventh session of the Baptist State Convention of North Carolina. It was a great time to see people and spend some time with those that I have not seen in the past year. I was able to see others that I have not seen in over four or five years. This year it was a bitter sweet time as I traversed the hallway between the convention session and the exhibit area. It was a bitter time as I heard less than edifying comments being made from messengers on both sides of the issues. As I walked and heard the various comments, I was reminded of what my Mother has told me since I was old enough to understand; “if you cannot say something good about someone, then do not say anything at all.” It was a sweet time in that I was able to visit with many that have made an impact in my life.

In this post, it is my desire to give the facts but not say anything negative about the personalities. I will give my opinion about the major issues that came before us and then present my opinion for how the issues affect the future of the BSCNC.

The Issues That Came Before Us

The convention dealt with four divisive issues. Tuesday morning the convention heard an appeal from Myers Park Baptist Church in a request to seat her messengers. In this appeal MPBC placed their Lesbian Deacon before the messengers and she appealed to John 3:16 as she argued for inclusion. The messengers listened to the appeal from this deacon and her Pastor. When it came time to respond from the convention floor the messengers stepped to the microphone and graciously responded. Brother David Martin from First Baptist Cary lovingly and passionately pleaded the case for repentance and becoming a new creature. Never condemning this precious lady, but openly admonishing her to repent from her lifestyle. There was one messenger from First Baptist Greensboro that appealed to the convention to allow MPBC to be seated. When the vote was taken the appeal was defeated by an overwhelming majority.

The Baptist college and universities study committee report came after this MPBC vote. While it was divisive, this report passed. One other thing that was different but pertained to the college and universities, concerned Wingate University. Wingate University chose to recommend their own trustees to the convention this year. They chose to fill 9 trustee slots and presented a list of 11 names. Nine would be presented to the convention along with two alternates. One of the alternates presented was a Resa Harris from Myers Park Baptist Church. The person making the recommendation from Wingate stated that this was a non-issue because this person was presented as an alternate in the case something happens to another trustee. Much discussion followed this asking for clarification. It never was clearly identified that this person would not serve.

Wednesday morning brought with it two more issues that were divisive. These issues brought with it a passion that is close to home for everyone. The first issue that gained our attention on Wednesday morning was the Baptist Retirement Homes Study Committee Report. After the Study Committee officially released the report to the convention it was requested that a representative from the BRH speak to the convention about the report. No one came to any of the microphones. Opportunities were presented to the BRH to speak and once again before any messenger was allowed to speak for or against the report. Thus, the BRH had ample opportunity to speak to this report. In this report, it was recommended that we release the 2007 escrowed funds. This recommendation was amended from the floor that in essence called for the BRH to return to the table and if they did not come back to work with us, then the funds would not be released. This amendment passed by a large majority and we moved on to the Budget Committee Report.

The Budget Committee Report was presented and the main focus was the North Carolina Missions Offering. In this offering in the past the Womens Missionary Union of North Carolina received the largest portion of the offering at 33%. This amounts to nearly $900k of a $2.5 million offering. This year the offering was set at $2 million and the WMU-NC was excluded. The BSCNC Board of Directors approved, in their October 29, 2007 called meeting to remove WMU-NC from the NCMO and and allow WMU-NC to promote an annual offering solely for themselves. Many in the leadership and others connected with WMU-NC were not happy about this move and mounted a propaganda campaign on Tuesday. As I entered the convention hall on Tuesday afternoon I was presented with a pamplet from a person saying he was representing Friends of the WMU. In this pamplet there were many half-truths presented and really stirred up the ire of some conservatives. As reported on this blog, there was a motion made to return the WMU-NC to the NCMO. Dr. Roy Smith, former Executive Director/Treasurer stepped up to the microphone and amended the budget report to increase the NCMO by $500k and for this amount to go to the WMU-NC. After a passionate debate on this amendment from both sides the amendment failed.

Highlights of the Convention

The messages at this year’s convention were phenomenal. It seemed that God had His special anointing on our speakers this year like never before. Monday evening began with a sermon from Dr. Jim Henry, former Pastor of First Baptist Orlando and President of the Southern Baptist Convention. Dr. Henry is currently Interim Pastor at Biltmore Baptist Church in Asheville, NC. I believe, but I have not verified, that Dr. Henry has retired to the North Carolina Mountains. I do know that this is his second Interim Pastorate in North Carolina. I do not believe that NC Churches are flying him back and forth in order for him to do interim work. However, Dr. Henry gave a challenging message on unity. Tuesday morning Brother Milton Hollifield gave his ExD/T address and did he knock it out of the park. His call to the convention for choosing your loyalties was a message that should have been heard many years ago. He unashamedly stood before the messengers and presented a challenge for us as we move into the future. Then Dr. Stan Welch gave his final Presidents address. He challenged us to be fishing and not only to fish but to learn how to fish. I am going to miss Dr. Welch’s leadership. But, the message of messages was Dr. Mark Harris. Dr. Harris is currently serving as Senior Pastor of First Baptist Charlotte. Brother Mark took his text from Nehemiah and challenged NC Baptist to rebuild the walls. Brother Mark observed that we needed to rebuild the walls that have been broken down in NC Baptist life. Brother Mark called us to the rebuilding of the walls of consecration and then did something that has never been done in the 177 year history of our convention. He gave an altar call. Many responded committing to the future of the BSCNC and it was the talk of the convention on Wednesday. What a great time of worship.

The officer elections was a time of zero controversy. On Tuesday morning we had the Presidental election and Dr. Rick Speas, who served as our 1VP and is Senior Pastor of Oldtowne Baptist Church in Winston Salem, was elected without opposition. I went to school with Brother Rick at SEBTS and have seen God use him throughout his time here in NC. I believe he will make a great President and look forward to his leadership. Then Dr. Leland Kerr, currently the Director of Missions for the Wilmington Association and serving as 2VP was nominated and elected to the office of 1VP. After that Dr. Phil Ortega, Senior Pastor of Scotts Hills Baptist Church in Wilmington was elected to serve as our 2VP. The Recording Secretary nominated and elected was Rev. Tim Lowry, Senior Pastor of Balfour Baptist Church in Asheboro. The only challenge race that had to be balloted in the officers election was that of Assistant Recording Secretary.

Seeing Brothers and Sisters that you have not seen was a grand highlight. I met Brother Benji Ramsuer for the first time. I knew his Dad and Mom as his Dad used to be Pastor of a neighboring church. However, I never met Brother Benji. Brother Benji and I had an enjoyable time of raggin on each other and I surprised him by my statement about a slight move in my theology. He responded that there may yet be hope for me. From there I was able to introduce him to Brother Les Puryear. Brother Les and his lovely wife Debbie were worn out this year as they kept vigil at the Small Church Impact booth in the exhibit area. I also introduced Brother Les to a person that I know personally and have worked with in the past. This person would be a huge asset to small church pastors and I do pray that Brother Les and he could work out a way for his services to be offered at the Small Church Impact Conference.

What do I see as the future of the Baptist State Convention of North Carolina? I see a bright future. Our Baptist Children’s Homes are doing outstanding jobs. Our Missions outreach is one of phenomenal growth. When I arrived home today my mail contained an envelope from Baptist Men. There are thirteen, count them, 13 various Missions opportunities for churches to participate. If you desire to do missions the BSCNC has made it available. Also, we are planning a state-wide event called Operation Inasmuch. This event will be a local missions outreach endeavor for the local church. If all of the churches in NC will participate in this event, can you imagine the impact for the cause of Christ? Our church planting is increasing like never before. I believe the BSCNC will see her best days.

The doom and gloom that some will present is to be expected. However, I believe that the BSCNC will prosper with the good Hand of God leading her as we reach a lost and dying world.

Digg ThisShare via email

Oct 07

20

Is it Time?

Posted by Tim Rogers on October 20, 2007
Posted in Baptist Retirement Homes of North Carolina • Baptist State Convention of North Carolina • Cooperative Baptist Fellowship • Fruitland Baptist Bible Institute • Giving Plans • Missions • Mrs. Ruby Fullbright • Southern Baptist Convention • Women's Missionary Union of North Carolina  | 6 Comments

Recently I was called by the editor of the Biblical Recorder to question if there was forthcoming a motion from me concerning combining the giving plans of the North Carolina Baptist State Convention (BSCNC). In the course of the interview I made it abundantly clear that this motion did not hold with it the intention for anyone to leave the convention. While some may offer comments otherwise, I promise you my heart is clear on the intent of this motion. I honestly believe that if we are going to be united in North Carolina we must unite the giving plans. Uniting the giving plans unite NC Baptist in three ways.

Intention

What is the intent of those giving to the various plans? There are different ideas all across the state about who deserves what and how much each entity should get. However, as you look at the plans you find that it is more than just a disagreement on who gets what. The plans were developed and designed out of vengeance. The first division of the giving plan came because some desired to hurt SBC causes due to the Conservative Resurgence, but they did not want North Carolina affected. That plan is now called Plan B. When that plan was not doing as much as some thought it should there came forth a new plan that placed nothing in the SBC coffers and helped fund a new start-up denomination called Cooperative Baptist Fellowship, but they still did not desire to hurt North Carolina. That plan is known as Plan C. When conservatives came into leadership prominence, there was decided that another plan was needed in order to keep the conservatives from doing completely away with Plan C. This plan is known as Plan D. This plan allows for lest to go to North Carolina, but more to in-state pet projects of the Conservatives. Fruitland Bible Institute is a huge recipient of this plan. Once again, notice how this plan came about. It was done to keep the conservatives from deleting Plan C.

Which brings me to a question. What is the intent in our giving? Do we give because we do not like something? Do we give more because we like something? In 1 Corinthians 8:3 the Apostle Paul writes under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, that the Macedonians gave to a poverty relief fund out of their own poverty. I can imagine some in the churches there in Macedonia saying, we are just as poor as those in Jerusalem we are not giving to help them. No, they gave above their ability and the Bible goes on to tell us that they pleaded with Paul to allow them the opportunity to give. It seems that we in North Carolina need to return to our intention of giving. What is the reason I lead my church to support our Cooperative Missions Giving Offering? What is the reason that you lead yours? Returning to one giving plan will unite North Carolina Baptist on intent.

Insinuation

What does four giving plans insinuate about North Carolina Baptist? Not only that, but what do giving plans that give directly to CBF insinuate about North Carolina Baptist? According to CBF website the BSCNC is listed as a Congregational Partner. Who knows exactly what that means. If you follow this link on Congregational Life it says the CBF will fund up to $20k of certain projects. I do not believe the BSCNC is receiving any funds from CBF. However, the insinuation that we are Partners with CBF tells the world that BSCNC is supporting the CBF in their mission through our budget.

Let’s not leave Plan D out. What is the insinuation of Plan D? Well it tells the world that there are things going on in the BSCNC that is not acceptable. Plan D has grown the most in the past couple of years. Shouldn’t that say something to our leaders? What is going on that makes churches move their giving from Plan A to Plan D? Plan D gives less to the BSCNC but gives the same amount to the SBC as Plan A. Plan D insinuates that there is not enough votes for me to change something at the convention level so instead of pulling out altogether, I will give a nominal amount. But I do not want to hurt Fruitland and by giving to this plan I can still have a voice in the convention.

Multiple giving plans insinuate to the world that we are not together in North Carolina. The insinuation further brings about division within the local associations and also even comes to the church. Some churches giving to Plan C do not realize they are not supporting Southern Baptist causes. Plan D was presented as a plan that would allow more SB causes to be funded. However, most churches giving to Plan D do not realize they are giving no more % to Southern Baptist causes than a church giving to Plan A.

The insinuation of a united front is the first thing that is brought to light when you call a budget consultant to your church. I had the opportunity to use a consultant from the BSCNC to help our church make certain that our budget was doing what we desired it to do. The first thing he pointed to was the various “love” offerings we involved ourselves in. He commented that a church was not united in cause when there were small groups of people pushing for a love offering for their pet projects. What a unique concept.

Therefore uniting the giving plans into one plan insinuates to the world that we are united. We are together in what we are about and that we plan to accomplish our tasks under a united banner.

Mission

What is our mission as a convention? According to our Articles of Incorporation we see two purposes of our formation.

A. To assist the churches in their divinely appointed mission; to promote missions, evangelism, education, social services, the distribution of the Bible and sound religious literature; and to cooperate with the work of the Southern Baptist Convention; and

B. To do any and all acts and things which may be deemed desirable or expedient for the benefit of the programs of the Convention.

This mission should be funded through one budget. If we relegate our responsibility of education to the CBF, then let the schools be under the banner of CBF. We should not set up a separate budget in order to accommodate our purpose for education.

I will not try to explain how we are able to have a budget designated to the CBF when our mission plainly states we are “to cooperate with the work of the Southern Baptist Convention“. Suffice it to say that a study in 2001-02 produced a decision by lawyers that this statement did not restrict us from setting up a plan giving directly to the CBF. However, I still ask the same question.

We need to focus on our mission and it is evident from the WMU-NC’s latest move that we are not united on mission. Mrs. Ruby Fulbright, Executive Director of the WMU-NC, said in a meeting that BSCNC was focused on Evangelism and Church Planting and WMU-NC was focused on Evangelism and Social Ministry. This statement was a shock to many in the meeting. However, if you look at our budget one can see how these various mission visions compete with one another. If we had one budget then we would be able to clearly define the mission because it would be reflected in the budget. If an entity or auxiliary were then to say their mission was different we would be surprised for a reason.

Conclusion

Will we lose congregations if this motion passes and the study committee returns a recommendation to return to one budget? We probably will. Will we lose congregations if we continue with separate giving plans? We most definitely will. This trend has already been noted especially among churches giving to Plans B & C. Many are wondering aloud the reason we are bending over backwards trying to salvage relationships when we are constantly getting bombarded with walk outs. I have also spoken with some that desire to see these issues settled in court. What many do not realize is that the Baptist Retirement Homes of North Carolina did not allow the new trustees chosen by the BSCNC to attend their first trustee meeting. Why? BRHNC does not recognize BSCNC’s right to seat trustees. This is wrong, but I do not believe court action is the answer.  If we have one giving plan will this keep these incidents from taking place in the future? Probably not. But, if we have one giving plan we will certainly tell everyone that takes money out of the pot that those placing money in the pot are united.

Thus, the time is now for the BSCNC to begin the process to return us to one giving plan. Whoever we lose I bid them Godspeed in their endeavors. Whoever we gain I praise God for their addition and desire to seek God’s will through their participation in the BSCNC.

Digg ThisShare via email

Oct 07

17

Looking at Fact or Fiction

Posted by Tim Rogers on October 17, 2007
Posted in Baptist State Convention of North Carolina • Cooperative Baptist Fellowship • Dr. Roy Smith • East Taylorsville Baptist Church • Mrs. Ruby Fullbright • Women's Missionary Union of North Carolina  | 13 Comments

Mrs. Ruby Fulbright has posted a response to much of the back-and-forth that we find ourselves facing during these days leading up to our North Carolina Baptist State Convention. I met Mrs. Fulbright at the East Taylorsville Baptist Church meeting and found her to be very friendly and engaging. She engaged me as a gracious Christian lady as well as one that stands on what she believes. I believe that she loves Jesus and desires service for Him. I happen to disagree with her on the issues before us, and while she has much more insight into the particulars of these events, I have found her responses to be lacking in clarity.

I have copied her position taken directly from the WMU-NC website. I have responded to the areas that I understand to be the case.

  • The Gossip: WMU NC is leaving or resigning from the Convention.
  • The Truth: There is nothing that WMU has said or written that would indicate that we are leaving the Convention. Our decision to relocate our offices is not a departure from our commitment to supporting and promoting missions through the BSC. We intend to continue working with all churches and associations; we intend to keep praying for, promoting and supporting the offerings, as well as providing missions education resources and training. We are only changing the location of our office.
  • My Response: It seems that while the WMU-NC desires us to believe that they are not leaving the Convention, we still perceive it differently. The reasons? First, they are moving out of the building because they say they do not desire to be a liability for the Convention. However, they are going to need approximately $400 thousand from the churches for what they receive at the Baptist Building at no cost. This means that the first $400 thousand that comes from the churches to the WMU-NC is for administrative costs. Second, while they desire to continue to pray for, and promote the offerings, Mrs Fulbright has made it abundantly clear that they desire to partner with other denominations and para church organizations that do not hold to the same theological center as North Carolina Baptist. Thus, if they leave the Baptist Building they become more free to partner with organizations that promote theological positions that North Carolina Baptist would soundly defeat. If moving from the Baptist Building gives one more autonomy, which in this case the WMU-NC has clearly stated it will, then one is leaving the NCBSC. It is the same as the CBF-NC withholding their contributions to the SBC but still saying they are Southern Baptist.
  • The Gossip: WMU NC will have no accountability.
  • The Truth: First and foremost, WMU NC has never been under anyone’s authority except the Lordship of Jesus Christ. And, WMU NC has a very good system of accountability. As a grass-roots organization, WMU NC is accountable to you, our WMU members. WMU NC Staff is accountable to the WMU NC Executive Board. This Board is made up of five officers, 2 members from each of the 10 regions in the state plus 5 additional members. These board members are elected each year at our annual meeting in the spring. The Executive Board has several administrative committees that make sure the organization operates according to its Articles of Incorporation and Bylaws, that personnel are “doing their jobs” and that all finances are in order.
  • My Response: WMU-NC is under the authority of the Lordship of Jesus Christ. No one has ever denied that and that has never been the question. The question that has been evaded time and again is how the WMU-NC is accountable to the churches. While the WMU is organized and functions in a society format, the WMU-NC has always been accountable to the churches through there auxiliary relationship with the NCBSC. The churches allowed the WMU to collect funds because they knew the ladies in the church and the WMU-NC organization carried with it the auxiliary relationship with the NCBSC. In the historical relationship the way the NCBSC goes, so goes the WMU-NC. This veil of accountability is nothing more than the WMU-NC desiring to be closer connected to the CBF than with the NCBSC. Accountability is the key here. WMU-NC has made it abundantly clear that they are accountable to themselves and no one else. Dr. Roy Smith, in his failed attempt to say otherwise, admitted that while he was Executive Director/Treasurer he still signed off on new employees the WMU-NC brought on board. They have always been accountable to the BSCNC.
  • The Gossip: WMU NC wants to hire those who would be less than Christian in their lifestyle and witness.
  • The Truth: We have not changed the way we search for, examine and elect staff. We are extremely cautious when it comes to staff, both in the office and at Camp Mundo Vista. We want staff that are called by God, committed to Him and the task to which He has called them, who understand God’s heart for the world and desire to follow Him by accepting the challenge of the Great Commission.
  • My Response: First, I have never heard this said. I do know that a question was raised at the meeting that Mrs. Fulbright and leaders from other Baptist Universities along with WMU-NC leaders attended. The question posed was if she moved from the present hiring status (getting Ex.Dir. to sign) what assurance would NC Baptist have that they would not hire someone from these other denominations? It was presented that these other denominations that Mrs. Fullbright acknowledged a desire for WMU-NC to be working with, would not take Biblical stands concerning homosexualilty. Mrs. Fulbright never answered that they would not hire someone that viewed themselves as a Christian but was engaged in a homosexual relationship. She only said that at present they do not have anyone working in the WMU-NC that would consider themselves homosexual. Do not take my word for her lack of clarity, notice her response above to the very question she designed and says is gossip. What assurance does one have that the WMU-NC will not hire someone that is “less than Christian in their lifestyle and witness”? She only says the WMU-NC desires to hire people with the desires she has spelled out. Let me break it down. A person can say; “I am called by God, I am committed to Him and the task to which He has called me, I understand God’s heart for the world and I desire to follow Him by accepting the challenge of the Great Commission and I am a lesbian in a committed relationship. According to Mrs. Fulbright’s guidelines she will be able to hire the person without violating any principles she has spelled out.
  • The Gossip: WMU NC doesn’t follow the 2000 Baptist Faith and Message and “believes” in women preachers.
  • The Truth: WMU NC does not have a public stance on the 2000 Baptist Faith and Message or on women preachers. That is not our purpose for being nor our business, really. One of the things that Southern Baptists do say they believe is in the Priesthood of the Believer and the Autonomy of the Local Church. Those two beliefs indicate that who God calls and to what God calls them is an individual decision. And, each church must decide for herself what she wants to affirm or not to affirm. WMU NC does have as one of its core values to recognize the giftedness of women and girls and accept the responsibility to help them use their gifts in serving Christ.
  • My Response: Mrs. Fulbright’s understanding, or lack thereof, of the Priesthood of the Believer and the Autonomy of the Local Church completely negates 1 Peter 1:20. It is clearly written in the Scripture that the interpretation of Scripture is not a private individual matter. While each church does decide for herself whether the one called is in accordance to Scripture it is still Scripture that is the basis for the decision. Dr. James Sullivan, in his book Baptist Polity said;

Two Theological beliefs undergird every decision Southern Baptists have made about polity: the priesthood of the believer and the autonomy of the local congregation. Because we as Baptists believe these are clearly set forth in Scriptures, we are forbidden ever to violate the conscience of an individual believer or seek to coerce the members of an individual church.

This means that while we beleive in the priesthood of the believer we do not coerce one another to believe the way we believe. We believe the way we do based on Scripture.

Do I feel the WMU-NC should adopt the BF&M2k for their doctrinal position? Not unless the BSCNC does so. And even if that happens the WMU-NC must make their decision based on their conviction. However, if it is revealed that their conviction is different, then the BSCNC should reassess this relationship as an auxiliary. Thus, this item does not concern me. The proper response would be for the BSCNC to advance a doctrinal position and then watch the WMU-NC to see if they would follow. Of course Mrs. Fullbright could not adopt the BF&M2k because of the point that women, according to Southern Baptist as a whole, believe Scripture limits women from being ordained as Senior Pastors.

  • More Truth: It was clear from the beginning that WMU was a missions organization that believed women could lead the way in the local church in missions activity and missions giving. When you read the history of WMU you see evidence of how our leaders shaped and guided the work of this organization that, at various times, could have splintered and lost its missions purpose.
  • My Response: It is true that the history of the WMU proves how women lead the way in the local church in missions giving. You can talk to Dr. Roy Smith and you will hear about women selling chicken eggs in order support missions. There are some great stories of sacrifice in giving of time and income that it will bring tears to your eyes. However, note with me how they did this. It was through the local church, through the local association, through the Baptist State Convention of North Carolina, through the Southern Baptist Convention. While we are not connected in polity (each entity is autonomous of the other) we are connected in heart. The WMU-NC moving in this direction is a movement to divide the heart of North Carolina Baptist.
Digg ThisShare via email

Sep 07

20

Has the Fat Lady Sung?

Posted by Tim Rogers on September 20, 2007
Posted in Baptist State Convention of North Carolina • Executive Committee • Milton Hollifield • Missions • Mrs. Ruby Fullbright • Women's Missionary Union of North Carolina  | 38 Comments

There’s an old saying that I heard growing up; “It ain’t over until the fat lady sings.” This saying was a redneck way of referencing the opera. It seemed that all operas had rather large ladies to sing their closing song. Therefore when you saw this large lady walking on stage and begin with that soprano voice, you knew the opera was closing. This was the final farewell and you could rest assured that you were leaving and would not return for that opera again.

This is what I would like to ask about the WMU-NC and the BSCNC; Has the fat lady sang? Is there no way that the two can sit back down at the table and negotiate some way to resolve this stalemate? There are Godly people on both sides in this situation and it does seem that we should be Christian and adult enough to resolve this difference of opinion.

I was at the meeting this past Tuesday evening when information was given out about our situation. I met Mrs. Ruby Fullbright and others in the WMU-NC leadership. All of the ladies impressed me as being Godly women who desire to see God’s will accomplished. Mrs. Fullbright sought me out and introduced herself to me. I was very impressed with her as she was very pleasing and easy to speak with. She encouraged me with my blogging efforts and we shared a couple of laughs. As I listened to her address the group I remember thinking as she spoke; she is very articulate and certainly conveyed what she felt those present needed to hear. While Dr. Brian Davis answered questions he referred various ones to Mrs. Fullbright because it pertained specifically to WMU-NC’s position.

Various reports about this meeting seemed to imply that this meeting was put together by mean old preachers that wanted to kick the WMU out of the BSCNC. Mrs. Fullbright, along with a former Executive Director/Treasurer of BSCNC and even representatives from our universities made their way to East Taylorsville Baptist Church. I believe they were pleasantly surprised when they were received as they were and were asked and even received well when they addressed various issues. Some of the information was new and some information received was already old news. I know that the WMU at the ministry I serve was very pleased they were in attendance.

Some of the issues that I found at the meeting is something I would like to address here. Mrs. Fullbright was able to respond to various concerns and some I agreed with while others I do disagree. First, is the decision to distinguish between Evangelism and Ministry. She pointed out that evangelism was a part of their focus but they were more focused on ministry than church planting. I disagree with her assessment of this because she basically presented a point that it is okay to evangelize but their emphasis was not starting new churches. I agree with the need to evangelize and use ministry opportunities in this endeavor. However, if we are going to evangelize, why not partner with the Mission Growth and Evangelism department of the BSCNC? Mrs. Fullbright gave the impression that WMU-NC desired to be in this by themselves.

One other thing that she said that raises a concern for me is that appearance of this move. Mrs. Fullbright clearly stated that the WMU-NC was not leaving the BSCNC they were merely changing addresses. I certainly do not desire to dispute her assessment and only she can tell you the heart of the WMU-NC. Brother David MacEachern passionately stated that the appearance of this move says differently. While I do not believe Mrs. Fullbright’s or anyone associated with WMU-NC has any intention of leaving the BSCNC, I must admit I have to agree with Brother David. This move screams that we are leaving and we do not desire for BSCNC to hold us accountable in any way.

Why would I say this? It comes down to the reason for leaving. Mrs. Fullbright stated that the reason for the WMU-NC making this decision had to specifically do with the hiring practices that Brother Milton Hollifield interprets. Mrs. Fullbright does not desire to have Brother Milton to sign off on anyone the WMU-NC hires. WMU-NC has their own Personnell Committee, which is different from the BSCNC. That brings me to another question. Why are we duplicating Human Resource departments? This entire move does not have anything to do with missions strategy, theology, or even conservative leadership vs. moderate leadership. This entire move centers around the fact that WMU-NC wants the BSCNC to pay their employess, issue them the same benefits as BSCNC, and give them space to operate, but does not want them signing off on who gets hired. Even Dr. Roy Smith, who was at the meeting, confessed he had to sign-off on who was hired by the WMU-NC.

After assessing this meeting, I confess there was one item that concerned me greatly. Mrs. Fullbright was asked; “The BSCNC has made it clear that they have not left the negotiating table. Would the WMU-NC return to the table to work out these differences instead of leaving the building?” Mrs. Fullbright responded that she could not say what they would be able to do. That was a decision of their Executive Committee. She pointed out that she is a hired employee and that she would defer to their Executive Committee. My concern stems from the fact that as Executive Director she has the authority to return to the negotiating table. She cannot make any decisions at the table, just as Brother Milton Hollifield cannot make any decisions to stop any funds going to WMU-NC. These decisions must be made by their respective Executive Committee’s. However, there is one small hick-up with BSCNC. When the BSCNC Executive Committee decides anything, they must make it in the form of a motion to the Board of Directors. When the BoD make a decision it must come in the form of a motion to the convention in annual session. For the WMU-NC it only comes as a discussion before their Executive Committee and these 30 women decide for the entire state WMU. No one else gets a vote.

Which brings me to my orginal question. Has the fat lady sang? As far as the WMU-NC it appears she has finished singing and sat down, because they do not appear to have a desire to return and work out differences. That is extremely sad.

Digg ThisShare via email

Sep 07

14

Is it Right or Wrong?

Posted by Tim Rogers on September 14, 2007
Posted in Cooperative Baptist Felloship of North Carolina • Lausanne Covenant • Ruby Fulbright • SBC Seminaries • Women's Missionary Union of North Carolina  | 18 Comments

We should not be taken up in the search for truth, as to neglect the needful duties of active life; for it is only action that lives a true value and commendation to virtue. —Cicero

The ethical dilemma that plagues the North Carolina Baptist State Convention (BSCNC) and the Women’s Missionary Union-North Carolina (WMU-NC) seems to be one that is very difficult for all involved. The dilemma appears to be a dichotomy between pursuing missions and working together. However, it appears the dichotomy removes itself once there is an agreement on the definition of missions.

When one looks at the Lusanne Covenant, there is a clear difference in ministry and missions. However, the WMU-NC do not differentiate between the two. According to this report, Mrs Fulbright presented four statements that outlined the reasons behind the WMU-NC’s move. In the first statement she says;

Church planting and evangelism is the vision and current direction of the
BSCNC. WMU-NC has stated: “however, we are a missions organization
believing that missions is ministry and evangelism.”

This type of combining two completely different areas of service blur the lines of missions. According to the Lusanne Covenant missions is defined as church planting and evangelism. Without evangelism church planting will not take place. There is no church planting that can be accomplished through humanitarian ministry. Granted the humanitarian ministry opens the opportunity for missions to take place, but our aim is evangelism and church planting. If we are not going to present the Gospel with the clear intention of planting a church, then we are doing no more than advancing the name of Baptist. I love Southern Baptist and believe that North Carolina is headed down the right track to become more committed in identifying with the Southern Baptist Convention. But, if I have to choose between ministry, which advances the Southern Baptist or evangelism and church planting which advances Jesus, that is a no brainer–it is Jesus every time.

You may begin to hear that the WMU-NC is afraid that they will go the way of Southeastern Baptist Theological Seminary (SEBTS). Do you remember SEBTS? That bastion of moderates that refused to allow conservatives in any shape or form and only had one token “conservative” on faculty. Once the trustees gained a majority then president Dr. Randall Lolley stepped down. Once Dr. Lolley resigned some actually had a mock funeral to bury the seminary. Today there is over 2k FTE students. Not bad for a seminary that was supposed to be dead. The WMU-NC decided they no longer wanted to be considered an “auxiliary” of the BSCNC, but a “cooperative partner”.

“Cooperative Partner” is interesting language used by the WMU-NC. I understand that others use this term and one should not be concerned. However, it is very ironic that this is the term chosen when a majority of the leaders of the WMU-NC retain their membership in churches that clearly identify themselves with Cooperative Baptist Fellowship. With the CBF-NC coming to the rescue so quickly after the announcement of WMU-NC, it does make one question whether they knew this was going to happen. Let me explain. Thursday, August 16, 2007 there was a telephone conference call by 75% of the WMU-NC Executive Committee. That call ended in a vote to leave the BSCNC building. Tuesday, August 21, 2007 the leadership of the BSCNC was notified by the WMU-NC of their vote and intentions. On Thursday, August 23, 2007 the regular meeting of CBF-NC Coordinating Council was in session. According to this release, in this regularly scheduled meeting the CBF-NC Coordinating Council voted unanimously to support WMU-NC in their move and they also commissioned an emergency offering to raise funds for this transition. Coincident? It is hard to imagine. As a side note there is something that causes more concern for me. The President of the BSCNC Board of Directors had to request a proposal from WMU-NC in order to present this matter to the Executive Committee. How was this information made available to the Coordinating Council of the CBF-NC before it was to the very people who holds WMU-NC accountable?

The future looks as if it will be a tumultuous convention this year at Greensboro. I predict that if we maintain this level of contention the least attended session at this year’s convention will be the election of officers. One would also have to seriously ask a question. Mrs. Lisa Horton seemed to clearly articulate what is tearing apart my insides.

Is all this really worth it? When you think about the confusion this will bring to local churches and how this could affect the North Carolina Missions Offering, I keep asking if this is necessary.

Mrs. Cindy Stevens asked if the convention had done anything to bring about this drastic of a move by the WMU-NC . Here is what I believe to be the “real” reason behind the situation we find ourselves. Mrs. Fulbright responded it was the insistence of BSCNC to be final hiring authority.

Thus, I return to the statement by Cicero. This drastic move is not about missions, and neither is it about WMU-NC’s desire to expand their missions involvement. This, according to Mrs. Fulbright’s statement, appears to be a disagreement of an employee of the BSCNC and her refusal to be seen as such.

Digg ThisShare via email

Next Page »