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Southern Baptist in NC

Keeping Christ central in the world of Southern Baptists

This past election results revealed the slippery slope concerning the moderate use of the legal drug alcohol.  According to some a principle of interpretation for scripture depends on if the bible prohibits it.  If there is no prohibition of scripture then a Christian is able to take part in the activity.

Dr. Al Mohler is on record advocating the scriptures do not advocate abstinence.   Dr. Danny Akin has also advocated the scripture does not advocate abstinence to beverage alcohol, but makes a scriptural argument for abstinence based on wisdom. Dr. JD Grear also advocates the Bible does not prohibit the social use of beverage alcohol but takes the same abstinence position as Dr.Akin. The arguments for those who usually advocate the biblical allowance for the social use of beverage alcohol is a simple one. John the Baptist was one who was a teetotaler while Jesus was one that imbibed in the social use of beverage alcohol.

Enter the new laws passed in this past election concerning the use of cannabis–for recreational use in Colorado and Washington–for medicinal use in Massachusetts. Ed Gogek has an editorial in the New York Times that reveals interesting statistics concerning this “medical” use of cannabis. Gogek gives clear indication that “medical” cannabis is not used primarily for treating those with cancer to enable them to eat more, but to anyone that claims pain. Gogek elaborates:

Almost all marijuana cardholders claim they need it for various kinds of pain, but pain is easy to fake and almost impossible to disprove. In Oregon and Colorado, 94 percent of cardholders get their pot for pain. In Arizona, it’s 90 percent. Serious illnesses barely register.

We in North Carolina feel immune to such issues however, something that slid under the radar of many North Carolinian’s was the Democratic state party in June.  Fresh off defeat of the Democrat Party’s push to defeat a constitutional amendment to define marriage the Democratic party met in June, 2012 and placed a number of resolutions before the group.  There was a resolution to repeal the constitutional amendment but there was another resolution that really did not get that much coverage in North Carolina.  The other resolution that passed was one concerning medical cannabis.

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Is It Time? Conclusion Part 2

Posted by Tim Rogers on May 6, 2011
Posted in AlcoholBaptistSBC IssuesSouthern Baptist Convention  | 8 Comments

In Part 1 of the concluding article posted here, I pointed out how we had Strong Theological Speech but Weak Doctrinal Practices.  Many of our leaders give excellent theological analysis and press us on thinking about the way our actions reveal our theology.  However, when it comes to doctrinal practice our leaders seem to have a discrepancy that veers from their talk.  I also expressed a concern that Covenants are Being Treated as Contracts.  In other words, we have people signing papers promising to do something they really do not believe in their hearts.  I want to conclude today with two more practices that need to change if we are going to see sacrificial giving to the Cooperative Program return.  Also, these four practices must cease if we are ever to see the return of some semblance of unity within our ranks.

Directing as Hierarchical Overseer

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Is It Time? Conclusion Part 1

Posted by Tim Rogers on April 28, 2011
Posted in AlcoholBaptistSBC IssuesSouthern Baptist Convention  | 2 Comments

This is the first part of a concluding article for a four part series.  The series I presented laments the differences seen in the Southern Baptist Convention since 1990.  In Part 1 I expressed my dismay in the responses I received concerning the alcohol motion I presented at the NC Baptist State Convention. Part 2 reviews my theological journey and how that shaped my convictions throughout my pastoral ministry. In Part 3 I spoke of the leaders I saw taking stands and the way those stands strengthened the convictions that were shaping within my theological system.   In this concluding post I lament three activities that has become standard practices of our leaders that must cease.  Do not misunderstand, our leaders certainly hold solid biblical standards in their personal private lives.  These standards must become more than just words spoken publicly to rally the troops.  Our leaders must insist on those following them to hold these same standards as convictions for them to be convictions lived out in all areas of Southern Baptist entities. If entities do not begin returning to these standards as convictions and not some covenant signed like a contract there will be a continual decline in giving and participation by those sacrificially supporting the Southern Baptist Convention (SBC).  What is seen within SBC entity leadership that causes these standards to become mere guidelines and will cause those who are sacrificially giving cease their sacrificial gifts?

In this two-part conclusion I want to describe four areas that need our attention as Southern Baptist.  In the first concluding article I will examine the strong theological speech coming from many within our leadership but the less than stellar doctrinal practice.  I will also point out how covenants are being treated as contracts and how that is causing a disconnect within the practices we as Southern Baptist have come to expect.

Strong Theological Speech But Weak Doctrinal Practice

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Is It Time? Part 1

Posted by Tim Rogers on March 4, 2011
Posted in AlcoholBaptist State Convention of North CarolinaSBC Issues  | 6 Comments

In 1978 Kenny Rogers, of no relation, sang a song that went straight to #1 on the Country Music charts and #16 on the Pop Music charts.  What is amazing about this song was that it was released earlier in 1978 by American country music artist, Bobby Bare and went nowhere.  Don Shiltz, the author of the song, recorded it before 1978 and charted it to only #65 on the Country Music charts. Rogers took the song and made it the premier song of his 1978 Gambler album and it was the popularity of this  song and album that is credited for getting Rogers the 1980 CMA Male Vocalist of the Year award.

I have been a country music fan for many years.  I am like Country Music great, Barbara Mandrell, “I was country when country wasn’t cool.” One thing I appreciate about vintage country music is the life stories that are taught in the lyrics.  Certainly, if one can get past, “getting drunk the day their moms get out of prison” lyrics one will see there are many life truths contained in the message of the songs.  Kenny Rogers’ hit song, “The Gambler” is one of those songs.  The chorus of his song brings me to the purpose of my post;

“You got to know when to hold ‘em, know when to fold ‘em,
Know when to walk away and know when to run.
You never count your money when you’re sittin’ at the table.
There’ll be time enough for countin’ when the dealin’s done.”

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In a previous article concerning the convention I covered the motion that I raised concerning social drinking.  Since that time the Biblical Recorder has released an article concerning my motion and a motion on the Baptist Faith and Message 2000 becoming our doctrinal parameters. What is interesting is the Baptist Faith and Message motion only gets minimal press coverage and the resolution affirming the Great Commission Task Force Report made by fellow pastor and blogger Brent Hobbs, took a 2/3 majority to get to the floor then passed overwhelmingly has seemingly received little to no press coverage. Be that as it may I would like to conclude my report on the convention by assessing the directions discussed and the results of the votes at this year’s convention.

First, we will have a shorter meeting next year.

It is apparent that we need a shorter meeting.  What does that mean for certain things?  Will that mean that the Pastor’s Conference will end at noon on Monday and the convention begin at 2:00pm?  Does that mean that the “break out” sessions will take the same route of the CBF-NC–no longer a part of the annual convention?  I understand the need for a shorter meeting as Wednesday morning’s session is populated by the same people that populate a crime scene–only necessary personnel.  On Wednesday morning this year, according to the schedule, we saw the WMU–10 minutes; Board of Directors–20 minutes; Baptist Foundation–5 minutes; Baptist Hospital-5 minutes; and then three committees reported–30 minutes.  Of course if one adds up the time it took for those reports, one will find a total time of 1 hours and 10 minutes.  If one observes the schedule for the Break Out sessions one will find 1 hour and 15 minutes for that time.  Thus, we do have the room in the current format to schedule the Wednesday AM business for Tuesday afternoon.

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NC Baptist State Convention Part 1

Posted by Tim Rogers on November 11, 2010
Posted in AlcoholBaptist State Convention of North Carolina  | 3 Comments

Some have commented on Twitter concerning the motion I made at the Baptist State Convention of North Carolina annual meeting.  What I find amazing is the “sniping” that is taking place on Twitter when these very same people had the opportunity to stand before the messengers and voice their objections.

For those who did not catch the motion it is as follows:

“I move the convention direct the Board of Directors to study a policy concerning the social use of alcohol as it relates to the funding of church plants, employment of personnel, and the nomination of persons serving on committees and boards of the Baptist State Convention of N.C. Inc. and report back to the 2011 annual convention.”

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Alcohol and SEBTS–A Strong Stand for Abstinence

Posted by Tim Rogers on October 22, 2010
Posted in Alcohol  | 4 Comments

Dr. Danny Akin, in a recent Presidential Forum, deals with many subjects and one he deals with, head on, is “beverage alcohol”.  I know my friend, Peter Lumpkins, dealt with SEBTS’s blog articles from Between-the-Times over at his place, which caused a back-lash over at SBC Voices.  It resulted in numerous strange activities such as a two-part post out of Enid, OK that claimed Brother Peter was the cause of the SBC collapsing, if it ever did.

Brother Peter’s Op did not allow for the forum at SEBTS as his writing indicates he did not know anything about a forum.  It is here in Brother Peter’s comment stream that the forum is mentioned.  However, that comment is dated 10/20.    His Op was based solely on the issue that he saw on Between-the-Times a back-to-back post concerning “beverage alcohol”. He raised a very good question that focused on the perspective of the reason that Dr. Akin was dealing with the alcohol issue.  He never charged there was a problem but asked if the reason for such a presentation of Dr. Akin posting back to back was due to a problem with “beverage alcohol”.  When Brother Peter posted his Op he appears to know nothing of the questions Dr. Akin was given by students to answer during the forum.  Brother Peter’s first understanding of the forum was when Dr. Akin engaged the comment stream over at SBC Voices and explained that he placed those back-to-back posts as a result of the forum.  This was dated 10/16 and seems to be the first anyone mentioned the forum as is noted in Dr. Akin’s response.  If one will view the video below beginning around the 35 minute mark one will observe the question and Dr. Akin’s response.

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Binge Drinking at WFU

Posted by Tim Rogers on August 25, 2010
Posted in AlcoholWake Forest University  | 2 Comments

In 1997 Ray Davis made a motion to sever all ties with Wake Forest University due to their determination to serve beer on campus at a place called Shorty’s.  Brother Ray’s motion was met with the customary do nothing response when at the 1998 convention WFU President Thomas Hearn announced that the alcohol issue was under constant review, but the on-campus sale of beer and wine continues. This motion met with many a call from the more moderate wing of the convention to step lightly when addressing this issue. The reason surrounding this need to walk lightly had to do with the ministries that funds were supporting at WFU.  Then in 1999 WFU allowed a church, who was using the Wait Chapel, to schedule a same sex marriage ceremony. It seems that WFU has consistently been trying to walk a balance beam of trying to see how close they can walk to sin without being guilty of it.

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Drifting in a Whiskey Barrel!!

Posted by Tim Rogers on July 4, 2008
Posted in Alcohol  | 28 Comments

The picture to the left is a picture taken of a commercial whiskey still known as Blue Blazes Whiskey still.  You can read about that still here.  The still that is famous for the death of two Federal Agents is now revered as part of the cultural past.  Let me be fair, as I grew up in North Carolina and am an avid NASCAR fan.  NASCAR has its roots in moonshiners.  One of NASCAR’s founding figures, Junior Johnson, served federal time for being caught “firing up” a still that his family owned.  Allow me to say that I do not believe those that were moonshiners were ‘bad’ people.  I do believe they were misguided in their idea of hard work.  I know that the land in Wilkes County was not conducive for agricultural trade, but many other people that lived in Wilkes County made a living without being moonshiners.  While it is a cultural ingredient of the county, it must be admitted that liquor, moonshine or not, certainly has ruined many lives.

My daily perusal of our local paper revealed an article concerning liquor that caught my attention.  If you are like me, I only glance at the headlines and then read the articles that catch my attention.  In the article Burbon Boom I found out that the liquor industry is certainly selling it by the barrels.  Let me remind our readers that this article only deals with “straight whiskey” and does not report on vodka and rum, or Scotch whiskey.  The article enlightens its readers as to the ‘boom’ of the whiskey industry and gives verifiable statistics.  Allow me to give you some simple “cuntry rifmatic” concerning this industry and the US Population.

In the article it reports the sale of ‘straight whiskey’ as 14.7 million 9 liter cases.  This does not account for the sales of vodka and rum, which the article reported were more than straight whiskey.  Neither does it account for Scotch whiskey, which the article reported was less than straight whiskey.  Let’s be fair as we examine the numbers.  We know the sales of straight whiskey was 132.3 million liter’s of straight whiskey was sold in the United States.  While the article reported that vodka and rum were ahead of ‘straight whiskey’ sales we will allow that at least 132.3 million liters of vodka and rum were sold.  Also, since the article reported that Scotch whiskey was less in sales, we will be fair and report one-half, or 66.2 million liters were sold.  That means that 330.7 million liters of ‘straight whiskey, rum, vodka, Scotch whiskey were consumed in the United States last year.

According to the latest figures I could find, in 2006 we had 300 million residents in the United States.  In these statistics we find that 24% of the population is under 18 years of age.  Thus, we have 225 million people residing in the United States over the age of 18.  As you know the legal age to consume this beverage is 21 years of age in most states.  What does the numbers tell us concerning the sales of whiskey in the United States?  One shot of whiskey, rum, or vodka is equivalent to one ounce.  There are 33 ounces of to a liter.  Let’s say that after two shots of straight whiskey, rum, vodka, or Scotch whiskey you would be very close to the legal limit of being considered drunk.  Now, let’s do the math.  330 million liters comes out to 1.5 liter per person over 18 in the United States.  According to a Barna survey in 2007, 36 million people admitted to being intoxicated at least once in the past month.  Here is where my “cuntry rifmatic” breaks down.  According to Barna, 36 million people, or 16% of the population in the United States, admits to consuming enough alcohol to get intoxicated within the past month.  According to the Beverage Information Group, the Whiskey industry has sold, at least, 330 million liters of either, “straight whiskey, vodka and rum, or Scotch whiskey in the past year.  This means that 36 million people purchased a case of whiskey in the past year.

What does this say about alcohol and America.  First, this survey does not cover beer or wine, something some consider less intoxicating than straight whiskey.  Second, the increase in sales is something that we will continue to see as the economy gets worse.  Why? I believe people who drink will not be able to afford to go out to drink and will sit at home to drink.

How will the church respond?  Will we continue to sit around and lament the virtues of abstaining, something we must do, or will we add to the lamenting practical ways to engage the culture and reach out to that person that buys a case a year?  I can tell you from personal experience that one who looks inside a bottle for fulfillment is one that just wants someone to love them as they are.  Jesus is that someone and He loves you just as you are.  You can respond to His love as He draws you to Himself.  Or you can reject His revelation of Himself to you and stay in that bottle.  Remember, when you come to Jesus, He loves you too much to leave you as you are.  I can tell you that the bottle is a lonely place.

America seems to be more and more lonely as she drifts down the Whiskey River all the time singing; Whiskey river don’t run dry you’re all I’ve got take care of me in the whiskey barrel.

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