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Southern Baptist in NC

Keeping Christ central in the world of Southern Baptists

After reading various blogs by Southern Baptists and trying to follow the stances of various others it is clear, I believe, that we are about to lose our stand on the truths of Mormonism.  As a matter of full disclosure I want to begin this article by saying two things.  First, I voted for Mitt Romney in our Presidential Elections.  This is a matter of personal preference not a stance as the pastor of the church I serve.  Second, one of my uncles, after his first wife died, married a woman who was a Mormon.  Thus, I have been exposed to their doctrine on a personal level as well as on a theological level in my studies and research.

With that disclosed I want to pass on to you the various articles I have followed and find the arguments interesting.  Peter Lumpkins was one that caught my attention on this matter. It was interesting to see Brother Peter agreeing with Dr. Ed Stetzer’s argument which disagreed with Dr. Bart Barber‘s argument which was in agreement with Dr. Dwight McKissic’s position.

After following these exchanges I began to contemplate the position that we should take as a convention.  I believe Brother Peter along with Dr. Stetzer gave us truth concerning the direction we need to be moving but I believe they concede too much. Brother Peter concedes the use of the term cult because of the nuanced language that is being used.  Dr. Stetzer concedes using the term for what seems to be pragmatic reasons.  However, elements from both Lumpkins and Stetzer should be taken into consideration as we move forward in this debate and ultimately as a convention. Dr. Stetzer presents us with foundational truths that are theologically pragmatic in his blog article. While Dr. Barber would agree with Stetzer concerning winning people to Christ and he would also caution against a softer, kinder, gentler language with dealing with false doctrine.

Having said that I spoke with Dr. Dwight McKissic concerning the 2013 convention in Houston.  It seems that a resolution would be the appropriate response to this in the convention.  Certainly no one would say that Mormonism and the Branch Davidians are the same.  However, they are still a cult. Thus, we need to clearly be on record expressing the heretical views of the Mormons but without lumping them in with the Cultist leaders of David Koresh, Jim Jones, and Charles Manson.

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Dr. Albert Mohler, President of Southern Baptist Theological Seminary, has released a statement concerning the movement of a group of Southern Baptist Pastors.  On May 31, 2012 a statement entitled, “A Statement of the Traditional Southern Baptist Understanding of God’s Plan of Salvation” was released to the public.  This statement was formed by a group of pastors that were concerned the majority of Southern Baptists were not represented well with the term “non-Calvinist”. We desired to positively express our position and begin a convention-wide conversation where our viewpoint would be listened to and affirmed.  As Dr. Eric Hankins said to me in one specific conversation; “if we find out that it is only you and me then we step back acknowledging we are wrong and begging the forgiveness of the convention.”  We desire to have a conversation and see this conversation produce amenable ends that will move forward the Great Commission.

A few observations concerning Dr. Mohler’s statement seem to be in order at this time.  First, Dr. Mohler’s words certainly are music to my ears.  For many years we were told there was nothing to talk about because the BF&M says all we need to say on this issue. Dr. Mohler even states as much in his response when he says;

“This means that every single Southern Baptist should be ready to work gladly with every other Southern Baptist who stands within the Baptist Faith & Message.”

It is this type of response that we are used to.  However, Dr. Mohler goes further than just hinging everything on the BF&M.  He acknowledges our concerns and even affirms our position in expressing these concerns.

Second, Dr. Mohler appears to desire a sit down.  But, whom does he desire to sit down and discuss the differences?  Dr. Patterson? Dr. Moore? Dr. Akin?  This is a group of Pastors that began this movement.  If Dr. Mohler truly desires to sit down and discuss this issue, it needs to take place, at the least, with the pastors whose names are on the document.

Third, Dr. Mohler is very affirmative in his acknowledgment of the rights we posses as individual Baptists to place our convictions on paper.  Thank you Dr. Mohler because we have seen statements from others questioning our motives in placing this before the convention.  You have not questioned our motives and for that I do thank you.

As to my position on Dr. Mohler’s statement, I would affirm him in a positive way.  He truly seems to try and acknowledge our position.  However, it is that very issue that brings a halt in my spirit in his assessment.  I hesitate to heap too many accolades on his statement for three reasons.

First his warning against “theological tribalism”. Read more

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Are we Subtly Accepting Rob Bell’s Theology?

Posted by Tim Rogers on October 10, 2011
Posted in CultureDoctrineSalvation 

As a pastor I usually do not debate the eternal destination of one such as Steve Jobs.  The reason behind that is a pastoral reason.  If I were doing a memorial service for one whose spiritual life was as polytheistic as Jobs I would never preach him into Heaven, neither would I preach him into Hell.  The purpose of the memorial service is two fold.  First, I am to make much of Jesus.  I would point out the sting of death has been removed because of Jesus. Second, I am to comfort the family.  It would not show love to a family to pronounce their love ones eternal location is hell.  I would merely point out the reference of Hebrews 9:27.  I would explain that their loved one is being judged based on his response to Jesus’ offer of salvation.  I would then move on and mention some good memories of the loved one. This article is more based on what I am seeing in the discussion instead of trying to determine the eternal location of Steve Jobs.

Rob Bell sent shock waves across the Evangelical world with the book “Love Wins”.  In the book Bell argues that no one knows what happens after we die.  It could be that Jesus forgives someone after they die and thus everyone ends up going to Heaven.

Bell’s universalism argument is not enunciated in Ed Stetzer’s recent article on Steve Jobs, but it does come close.   Read more

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In recent days we have seen the blogs light up over a vote by a North Carolina Baptist Association to dis-fellowship one of its member churches.  The vote to withdraw fellowship is a very serious matter and one that should not be taken lightly.  The action of this association has drawn many articles in the news and also on the blogs.  The Baptist news agencies coverage can be found here and here. The various blogs that I have seen covering this issue can be found here, here, here, here, and here.  What is truly amazing to me is the lack of coverage over at the Baptist Life forum and also on my favorite Moderate’s blog, The BigDaddyWeave.  However, something else has surprised me concerning this issue.

I called Dr. Billy Blakley and received his permission to post this on my blog. In my conversation with him he expressed to me that no blogger has contacted his office and this comes after we had a blogger express his ethical guidelines. However, he posted about this issue without even contacting the DOM and even admitted as much in his article.  Here you will find the Association’s official response concerning this situation. Below you will find this same letter composed by the Association’s Vice-Moderator for their church.  He gave Dr. Blakley permission to use it as the Association’s response to this issue.

The following article is written by Dr. Joel Stephens, pastor of Westfield Baptist Church and Vice-Moderator of the SBA, and by Rev. Jim Richland, associate pastor of Westfield Baptist Church and chairman of the Membership Committee of the SBA. Since it explains the rationale and the biblical basis for the motion made to remove fellowship with Flat Rock Baptist Church, I want to share the article with all our Surry Baptist members.

This month, due to a situation that has developed in another church within the Surry Baptist Association (SBA), your pastors felt it necessary to write a joint article to address the situation and how it may affect our Association and our congregation. The situation is as follows: Flat Rock Baptist Church of Mount Airy voted to call a new pastor who happens to be a female. Many within the Surry Association feel that this action is unbiblical, and we agree.

The role of women within the church is a complex, broad, and hotly disputed issue. Our newsletter forum does not provide adequate space to deal with this subject exhaustively. But there are some basic issues that need to be addressed. In order to address these issues, it is absolutely necessary to investigate the Scriptures that relate to it without taking those verses out of context and therefore arriving at a faulty interpretation.

Read more

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The Devastating Effect of a Postmodern Church Part 2

Posted by Tim Rogers on August 2, 2011
Posted in ChurchDoctrineLocal Church IssuesWorship  | 2 Comments

Rev. Bill Harrell

William F. (Bill) Harrell, has been the Pastor of Abilene Baptist Church in Augusta, GA for the past 30 years.  He has served in many capacities in the Georgia Baptist Convention as well as the Southern Baptist Convention and has just completed his second eight year term on the Executive Committee of the SBC.  Brother Bill, as he is affectionately called, was vitally involved on the Executive Committee during the years of the Conservative Resurgence chairing one of the main sub-committees through which many of the necessary changes were made.  He is the preacher on Strength For Today, the television ministry of Abilene Baptist which has a potential audience of over two million people each week in Georgia, South Carolina, Alabama and Tennessee.

In Part 1 Rev. Harrell laid the foundation for his thesis.  I would encourage you to read that foundational article if you haven’t already. 

The devastating thing is that the Church has largely accepted this diminished role in society as the proper one for it to fulfill in these days.  She has done this for several reasons.  First, it is simply easier to fit in and let society define who the church is and where and how she should conduct herself.  It’s the “Oh well, I’ll just do all I can do under the present circumstances and I can do no more.”  This frame of mind simply rewards the lazy and uncommitted.  In their minds it exonerates them from the call to make a difference.  Churches like this have simply given up while at the same time trying to appear holy.  Somehow I do not think that this is what Jesus had in mind when He said, “I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.”

Secondly, the church in the postmodern world is being intimidated into subjection.  It seems that the only people who do not have complete freedom of speech today are the preachers and the church at large.  For fear of losing their tax-exempt status many men of God have capitulated to the postmodern god called the federal government.  I don’t find that behavior in scripture.  Suppose Elijah or Daniel or Jeremiah had taken that viewpoint?  Can you just hear them saying to God; “Well, you must understand God, the king won’t put up with that.”  So, the church today is timid about the crucial things to which it should speak with boldness.  She is religiously fulfilling a perfunctory role in society while becoming weaker and weaker all the time. Where are the men and the churches who will stand up and say with Bible in hand, “Thus saith the Lord God.”  Read more

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The Devastating Effect of a Postmodern Church Part 1

Posted by Tim Rogers on August 1, 2011
Posted in ChurchDoctrineLocal Church IssuesWorship  | 1 Comment

Rev. Bill Harrell

Today I want to introduce you to the ministry of Rev. William F. Harrell.  Brother Bill has been in, and through,  the trenches of the Conservative Resurgence.  As a matter of fact, it was Brother Bill that organized the conservatives in Georgia.  After a time of getting them organized the Lord opened avenues of service for Brother Bill in the national conservative movement. This post is Part 1 of a two part series.  This is merely the introduction and the strength of this post will be evidenced tomorrow with Part 2.  Enjoy and feel free to comment.

William F. (Bill) Harrell, has been the Pastor of Abilene Baptist Church in Augusta, GA for the past 30 years.  He has served in many capacities in the Georgia Baptist Convention as well as the Southern Baptist Convention and has just completed his second eight year term on the Executive Committee of the SBC.  Brother Bill, as he is affectionately called, was vitally involved on the Executive Committee during the years of the Conservative Resurgence chairing one of the main sub-committees through which many of the necessary changes were made.  He is the preacher on Strength For Today, the television ministry of Abilene Baptist which has a potential audience of over two million people each week in Georgia, South Carolina, Alabama and Tennessee.

A casual perusal of recent history will reveal that it has not been too many years since the Church really made a difference in the way society conducted itself.  Read more

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2025 and the Southern Baptist Convention

Posted by Tim Rogers on May 31, 2011
Posted in DoctrineERLCExecutive CommitteeSBC IssuesSBC Seminaries  | 17 Comments

As I look at my life in the future I challenged myself to assess the future, not only in the SBC, but in my personal life and church life.  Therefore, I want to examine, from my personal point of view, what I believe the SBC will look like in the year 2025.  Mind you this is not an academically researched piece and it does not involve any trends seen in any current factual statistics.  It is merely the musings of a pastor who has seen, and been in the background of, the SBC’s transition over the past 20 years. A disclaimer that I must make is a recent wrong assumption concerning the republican nomination race.  I predicted, after Huckabee announced he would not seek to run for POTUS, that he was positioning himself for a vice-presidential ticket with Donald Trump.  Of course Trump killed that prediction for me just two days later. Thus, I have been wrong before and I could be wrong with this outlook.  However, in this first part of a two part opinion, there is no conspiracy theory just the notation of some odd alignments. One of our leaders may even term these notations mere myths.

Seminaries

It seems that a trend is beginning to develop across the land of the SBC that merging groups make them more effective.  One can see it in the trend of church planting.  It seems that many churches are beginning to “take over” other smaller traditional churches and calling it “reviving traditional churches.”  Problem is there is nothing reviving about it other than a mere decision on the part of a mega-church pastor to “help” the smaller church only to end up sending people over there to vote for merging with the mega-church.  Do not get me wrong.  Smaller churches that have needed to merge due to economic necessity does not a trend make.  However at a recent conference here in North Carolina an independent group had a session on restoring dying churches.  While that is a great undertaking, there is only one question that begs an answer.  Who determines if a church is dying?

Well there seems to be a trend that will call our seminaries to either merge together making them regional in their reach or for the purposes of the economy some will merge.  We see the seminaries already expanding their campuses to other major cities and this will continue.  In a time we read about seminaries laying off staff and becoming leaner due to the down turn of the economy we still seem some opening new campuses.  As a result the question has to be raised concerning the economic value of laying off professors and staff in one area but extending the footprint of the seminary. Thus, hiring new professors and staff to man the satellite campus.

Therefore, I envision that by 2025 we will have only three of our six seminaries.  Why?  Each seminary will have such a large footprint with the various cities it will reach absurdity as seminaries will be walking on each other in these major cities.  For example, already there is a seminary extension of Southeastern Baptist Theological Seminary in Jacksonville, Florida and Atlanta, Georgia.  New Orleans also enjoys a similar extension in Jacksonville, and also Atlanta.  Before someone asks, I have not included the other seminaries because I have not researched their satellite campuses.  The question will eventually be raised concerning the use of CP funds by these seminaries to have footprints in the same metro area.

ERLC and Executive Committee

This will eventually become a no-brainer.  Why do we have two entities when we could be served as well by one?  Look for Dr. Land to retire and when that happens it will open this discussion.  The discussion will bring this to the point of questioning the ERLC as an individual entity.  Could it better serve Southern Baptist to move the ERLC under the auspices of the Executive Committee?  I do not know.

Also, look for the name to no longer be “Southern Baptist Convention.”  Who knows what the name will be in the future, but there is one thing I have serious concerns over when it comes to this debate.  If the name change for the convention goes the way of other name changes, “Baptist” will become memory of a by-gone era.  Something the convention, as a whole, will look back on with only a fond memory. Already we have a leading evangelical advocating that “Christendom” is in the past.  Not only are we now living in a post-modern era but we are now in the post-Christendom era. Thus, we will see “Baptist” left out completely of the new name.  Many may cry foul here but their voices will be nothing more than a muffled gurgle. The argument will be that we changed the name of “Baptist Book Store” to “Lifeway Christian Bookstores.”   Remember the purpose we did this?  It was in order to reach out with our doctrine into a much more diverse evangelical world.  This same argument will be used when it comes to the name change of the SBC.  One will hear that people cannot witness to people because they are from a Southern Baptist church.  However, we need to remember what has happened with Lifeway?  Walk into any Lifeway Christian Bookstore and you will note the evangelical world has their diversity splattered on the eye-level shelves. Instead of making an impact in the evangelical world with solid biblical baptistic doctrine we will have evangelical ecumenism change us from Baptist by conviction to Baptist for convenience. When all of this takes place one will better understand the concern of Dr. Morris Chapman in last years debate about the GCR.  Look for many of the younger, restless and reformed to be leading in these changes and combined entities

Doctrine

The Doctrine of the SBC in 2025 will have moved to a point that leaders will once again include, if not fully embrace, the Moderate views.  We will have to endure another Conservative Resurgence due to the inclusiveness of any view regardless of its doctrinal weakness.  Evangelical apologist, Dr. Norman Giesler, has said that all institutions veer to the left and one must maintain a constant resolve to conservative doctrine to maintain a conservative course. Thus, SBC Conservatives must clearly understand the definition of a Moderate and Conservative in Southern Baptist life.

The late Dr. Adrian Rogers left us with a warning in the book finished by his wife, Joyce.  The book Love Worth Finding tells us about the life and preaching philosophy of Dr. Rogers.  On page 165, Dr. Rogers was asked the question; “What is the impact of the inerrancy of the Word of God upon preaching?” Dr. Rogers launches into a clearly enunciated response that gives great insight into who he was and also who we are as Southern Baptist.  In this answer Dr. Rogers deals with the need for a preacher to be able to preach something he has a heart conviction about.  The preacher needs to give a sure word not one that expresses doubt concerning his subject matter.  In this answer Dr. Rogers expresses the difference in a Liberal Southern Baptist, a Moderate Southern Baptist, and a Conservative.

“A preacher cannot declare to a congregation “this may be true” and engender any real zeal.  Without an infallible word from God, we have nothing but a holy hunch, and that will not do.

Liberalism is a relative term, dependent upon where one draws the center line of this thing called Christendom.  I’d define “true inspiration” as being convinced that all Scripture is inspired by God.

That said, I’d define a liberal Southern Baptist as a person who does not believe in the veracity, the exactitude, the integrity,the infallibility and inerrancy of the Scripture.  Even if he believed that the Word was inspired in its purpose but not in its entirety, he may be right of the center in regard to Christendom but left of the center line in Southern Baptist circles.

The moderate is a person who may believe the Bible to be without error, but who also believes in inclusivism.  He is a person who maintains the position of accommodating the liberal view. I believe the moderate to be more inclined to opinions than convictions.” {Bold emphasis mine}

With that said, one can certainly see this shift slowly moving back toward the Moderate view.  I believe, we are seeing these steps already revealing themselves in the Southern Baptist Convention.  This recent silent announcement slipped under the radar screen of many people within the SBC.  The reason I say “silent” has to do with the title of the news release from Southern Baptist Theological Seminary (SBTS).  To Baptist Press’ credit they did present a clear title concerning the article when they picked it up.  However, SBTS’s title was innocuous to say the least.  Upon reading the article one will find that a chair has been endowed at SBTS in the name of Dr. Duke McCall.  Dr. Duke McCall was the moderate leader of the SBC during the Conservative Resurgence.  Dr. McCall ran the SBC from the helm of Southern Baptist Theological Seminary during the time Moderates were leading the SBC.  This endowed chair of Leadership has with it a required series of Lectures to be given in chapel each year.  SBTS establishing an endowed chair in Christian Leadership, complete with lectures, would be akin to Baylor University establishing the Paige Patterson chair in Biblical Hermeneutics along with an annual Lecture Series on Moderate Biblical Interpretation and Why That Dog Will Not Hunt.

While endowing a chair at SBTS in Dr. McCall’s name does not make it moderate it does mean there is an inclusiveness attitude beginning to emerge.  Do not get me wrong.  Dr. Mohler is a very loud and strong proponent for Biblical inerrancy and  I do not see him in any way shape or form allowing anything less than inerrancy to prevail at SBTS.  However, with this step in 2011, by 2025 if it is not corrected we will have wholesale Moderates allowing for convoluted views of the Scripture.  Southern is the very seminary where neo-orthodoxy entered the SBC.  This type of inclusiveness, mind you, is the definition that Dr. Adrian Rogers established in recognizing who were and were not Moderates within the SBC. Am I saying that Dr. Mohler is a moderate?  No, I am not!!  Am I saying that his inclusiveness of this type of leader will lead the next generation into allowing for the full blown Moderate position?  That is exactly what I am saying.

In our next installment this writer will deal with the Mission Boards, Local Associations, and the Cooperative Program in 2025.

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